tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post3244644645001248421..comments2024-01-25T09:28:56.610+00:00Comments on Confessions of a skeptic: Chris Patten and the Pope's visit.Jonathan Westhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-9649336334210871492010-07-15T19:40:27.424+01:002010-07-15T19:40:27.424+01:00Crouchback and Biteback. What a couple.Crouchback and Biteback. What a couple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-84606917145620937582010-07-12T17:04:38.025+01:002010-07-12T17:04:38.025+01:00Crouchback
If you know nothing of Ealing Abbey, I ...Crouchback<br />If you know nothing of Ealing Abbey, I wonder why it is that you feel that you are justified in assuming the concerns raised are unfounded, or that those raising those concerns are motivated by anti-Catholic malice? That sounds like an an example of precisely the kind of prejudice you are freely accusing others of.<br /><br />Try reading the school's child protection policy and comparing it with the CSAS guidelines. Try comparing the Abbot's promise of an "independent review" with what he actually delivered. Once you have availed yourself of some facts, then I would be happy to hear your comment on whether further work needs to be done on child protection there.<br /><br />By the way, if you have children who are of school age, it would be sensible for you to take an active interest in the child protection policies of the school they go to, whether or not it is a Catholic school. If the policies are ineffective, a small number of paedophiles in positions of trust (even just one) can do a great deal of damage to a very large number of children. And your children could be among them.<br /><br />As for being shocked if any Catholic institution needed measures taken against it, presumably you were shocked at the Ryan Report into what had been happening in the Dublin diocese. But both Dublin and Westminster (and also for that matter your diocese in the north of England) operate under the same code of canon law, and the requirements of civil law are similar in both countries. Why should you expect that a school located within Westminster diocese should be free of the abuses which were so common in Dublin?Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-65609491683579395222010-07-12T16:27:22.791+01:002010-07-12T16:27:22.791+01:00I live in the North of England. I have no contact ...I live in the North of England. I have no contact with Ealing Abbey. I am an ordinary Joe in the Pew, Tridentine Masses mostly. As far as I know the Catholic Church has put in place Guidelines and procedures for the protection of children and any vulnerable persons. Any institutions where people have concerns should I guess be reported through the channels available. If there are further concerns that have been raised and are deemed not to have been dealt with properly....then I guess that maybe the Police should be informed. If I had such concerns I wouldn't think twice about reporting. As has been noted in other posts, there seems to be some quite technical and legal items that would need taking into consideration. I wouldn't think that a Trial by e-mail, or turning up at the school with placards would get very far. As I've noted before the people who have committed crimes seem to have been dealt with and have or are still serving jail terms.<br /><br />I'd be very surprised if Ealing Abbey.....or any other Catholic Institution did not adhere to Child protection guidelines or rules. I'd be even more surprised and shocked if Ealing Abbey or any other Catholic institution <i> NEEDED </i> Measures taken against itCrouchbackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02935593078371004088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-42590676164628198952010-07-12T14:28:15.150+01:002010-07-12T14:28:15.150+01:00Crouchback
In terms of ensuring that abuse cannot ...Crouchback<br />In terms of ensuring that abuse cannot happen again at St. Benedict's, your question is another case of whataboutery. If you are interested in the question you posed, you are welcome to go and research it.<br /><br />But before you do so, could you tell me whether you are in favour of taking measures <i>at St. Benedict's</i> to ensure as far as possible that no further abuse can happen there?Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-33565803861000560162010-07-12T14:18:23.040+01:002010-07-12T14:18:23.040+01:00So it would seem that there is a vast amount of ca...So it would seem that there is a vast amount of cases of child abuse, is child abuse at Catholic institutions or by Catholic personages more or less prevalent than at non catholic institutions, or by non catholic personages.....or does the number of cases in Catholic circles co-respond with the numbers in the rest of society.<br /><br />Does anyone have any figures or other responses to this..??Crouchbackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02935593078371004088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-41427589697685416702010-07-12T13:47:36.099+01:002010-07-12T13:47:36.099+01:00Hmm - anyway, back to Chris Patten - I seem to rem...Hmm - anyway, back to Chris Patten - I seem to remember that this blog was about him. <br /><br />Just a thought - does anyone know whether Lord Patten (b 1944) was a St Benedict's School contemporary of the young Maurice Pearce... later Fr David?Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16288917377032021803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-28157266083072405832010-07-12T13:34:10.495+01:002010-07-12T13:34:10.495+01:00For clarity.
Notifications returned under the Ed...For clarity. <br /><br />Notifications returned under the Education Acts<br /><br />2001 1,007 <br />2003 1,147 +12% <br />2004 1,362 +26% <br />2005 2,092 +53% <br />2006 2,784 +33% <br />2007 4,265 +53% <br />2008 8,728 +104% <br /><br />[Hansard]<br /><br />The figures suggest a disturbing trend and a liklihood that under reporting has long been present. Research indicates little change in the prevalence of child abuse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-89483266250864852192010-07-12T11:17:24.849+01:002010-07-12T11:17:24.849+01:00It's just stating facts - no more no less and ...It's just stating facts - no more no less and quite rightly this clearly exercises you as it should exercise us all. <br /><br />Another depressing piece of data is that over 40% of all sex crimes reported to the Police involve children who account for only 24% of the population. [Home Office] <br /><br />Then remember only 10% of such crimes are reported to the Police.[Lancet]<br /><br />The growth in Notifications returned by schools under the Education Acts, on which I've commented previously, is rising at an alarming rate. Between 2001 to 2008 the number of Notifications increased from 1001 - 8728; and increase of 772% <br />[Hansard - written answers from successive Children's Ministers] <br /><br />These statutory tools are to be completed under the Education Acts, by schools following the departure of a member of staff from a school in circumstances where had they not left of their own volition, they would have been dismissed as a result of their behaviour towards children. <br /><br /><b>These depressing facts exist despite there being no mandatory requirement in law for any school to report either allegations or the acts of child sexual abuse to the authorities - LADO, Police or social services.</b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-52690457868457108942010-07-12T10:40:13.298+01:002010-07-12T10:40:13.298+01:00FIRE-RAISERS AND SMOKESCREENS
There's certain...FIRE-RAISERS AND SMOKESCREENS<br /><br />There's certainly a lot of 'smoke' of one kind or another on this blog, (see above}, 'innuendo and accusation' abound. But, equally there are several instances of inaccurate and/or FALSE reporting. These could, as has been pointed out, well be subject to legal action. If someone decided, that is, that Mr West is worth challenging in this way. Many, if not all, of his readers will,I suspect, see this blog for what it is, rather than what it claims to be. No matter how many statistics are gleaned from The Lancet or other reputable sources, its underlying agenda (of 'calling Fire!) remains unmistakably clear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-71977942918810521622010-07-12T09:14:55.654+01:002010-07-12T09:14:55.654+01:00Sex Crimes against children in England:
April 07 ...Sex Crimes against children in England:<br /><br />April 07 – March 08 20,754 <br /><br />April 08 – March 09 21,618 <br />[Source Home Office]<br /><br />Between 5% and 10% of girls and up to 5% of boys are exposed to penetrative sexual abuse, and up to 3 times this number are exposed to any type of sexual abuse.<br /><br />[Lancet study led by Professor Ruth Gilbert,from University College London Institute of Child Health.]<br /><br /> A second study, also conducted by Dr. Gilbert and colleagues, shows that in most settings child abuse is significantly underreported — even by schools and community-health services that have continuous contact with<br />children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-15015731944628058832010-07-12T09:03:06.358+01:002010-07-12T09:03:06.358+01:00Likewise old boy!
This blog is riddled with unsu...Likewise old boy! <br /><br />This blog is riddled with unsubstantiated accusation, innuendo and pleas for more of the same! Over the past year it has, indeed, generating a considerable volume of smoke. However, some of us, not least those acquainted with theatrical effects, know only too well that there can be a great deal of smoke but NO FIRE!<br /><br />Constantly calling 'Fire!'is a very dangerous pursuit.<br /><br /> - A non-Monastic poster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-65104162767921007682010-07-11T23:33:55.696+01:002010-07-11T23:33:55.696+01:00Should Mr. West be sued for libel, old boys like m...Should Mr. West be sued for libel, old boys like me will make the trip to the UK to support him in court if required.<br /><br />Be very careful what you wish for, monastic posters - it could just come true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-69989194145294706712010-07-11T22:29:25.583+01:002010-07-11T22:29:25.583+01:00Why was Gregory suspended / relieved of his positi...Why was Gregory suspended / relieved of his position as a trustee? <br /><br />He was exonerated apparently, as the poster of 17.46 informs us - of what? If you are allegedly exonerated of something an allegation has to be made. As we know the CPS loathe CSA crimes and want them out of the court system as quickly as possible because they ruin CPS targets - hence the staggeringly poor conviction rate of only 2% of CSA cases resulting in convictions. We then have the paedophile charter created in 2003 - The Selwyn Bell precedent – to assist career paedophiles out of court. Of course victims also find it beyond belief difficult to come forward for completely understandable reasons. A Lancet paper in November 2008 suggested that only 10% of child abuse cases are ever reported. This is probably correct. The estimate from the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and the NSPCC is that the average career paedophile abuses 180 victims in a lifetime and that 1 in 6 children in England are abused before the age of 16. <br /> <br />Of course the Selwyn Bell precedent is used most often when schools fail to report known events of sexual abuse or the victim is unable to speak about the events and they come to the court’s attention much later. Schools often move members of staff to non-child facing roles within the same institution. Winchester College did this with a member of staff - a former housemaster in order to keep him employed. He left suddenly very recently because of changes to the law with the introduction of SVGA 2006 which meant his presence at the school under the new regulations could no longer be entertained clearly contrary to the schools wishes. This redeployment enabled them not to return a Notification under the Education Acts because he had not been sacked or left of his own volition as a result of behaviour he demonstrated towards children which suggested he was unfitted to work with children. Perhaps this “redeployment” move was used by St Benedict's in order perhaps not to return a Notification under the same Act for Pearce.<br /> <br />But what do I know? <br /><br />Has Chillman been redeployed in an educational role? I merely ask - bearing in mind the new regulations contained in SVGA 2006 would not permit this if he were deemed not to have passed the harm test. If he passed the harm test yet nonetheless has been redeployed elsewhere, when might St Benedict’s consider having to return a Notification under the Education Acts assuming under the rules in the statute there is every reason for St Benedict's to return such a Notification? <br /> <br />I speculate all this because as 17.46 informs us – Chillman has been exonerated (of something ?). <br /><br />Why his sudden disappearance from the board of trustees? <br /><br />Was the ISI informed? <br />Was the Charity commission informed? <br />Was the LADO informed? <br />Was the ISA informed? <br /><br />Perhaps someone from Mr West’s collection of individual’s should consider writing to all of the above just to make sure St Benedict’s has discharged its obligations because the administration give the impression of being neither morally centred nor honest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-79515724122601153392010-07-11T20:29:45.682+01:002010-07-11T20:29:45.682+01:00rE ANON 19:24
Fr Gregory Chillman is mentioned NO...rE ANON 19:24<br /><br />Fr Gregory Chillman is mentioned NOT TWICE but many times on this blog; in letters to the Archbishop, to Mr Turner, etc and, in fact,has an entire posting dedicated to his supposed 'misdeeds': THE CURIOUS CASE OF THE DISAPPEARING TRUSTEE! (June)<br /><br /> R KAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-24870914274789399632010-07-11T19:37:00.701+01:002010-07-11T19:37:00.701+01:00There seems now to be a Tweedledum and Dee act on ...There seems now to be a Tweedledum and Dee act on this blog. A statement from Mr West is immediately trailed by a suspiciously similar back up entry. Or is this just another instance of my not doing irony?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-18895206527447516202010-07-11T19:24:38.772+01:002010-07-11T19:24:38.772+01:00Anon at 18.50 (11th July 2010)
Huge amount of spa...Anon at 18.50 (11th July 2010)<br /><br />Huge amount of space about Fr Gregory? When and where? - I have only ever seen his name mentioned twice.<br /><br />You say:<br /><br />"Fr Gregory has been fully exonerated and is back performing his priestly and other duties with an entirely unblemished character."<br /><br />If this is correct then I can assume that someone has made a complaint against him and that it has been investigated by either Social Services or the Metropolitan Police Department that normally deals with the Monks of Ealing.<br /><br />It would be far better if the Abbot were to issue a clear statement about Fr Gregory. <br /><br />Has Father Gregory said a public Mass today in the Abbey Church? If not, then I'll assume that he has been suspended a divinis and he is the subject of an allegation but I digress as the old boy would say...I'll eschew other comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-28557658062819499832010-07-11T18:56:53.178+01:002010-07-11T18:56:53.178+01:00Ah well, maybe you don't do irony very well. D...Ah well, maybe you don't do irony very well. Do you have anything in writing on the subject of Fr Gregory? Nothing seems to have been put on the Abbey website on the subject. <br /><br />And you say that "he is back performing his priestly duties". That would suggest that he was suspended from them for a time. Do you have any further information on that topic?Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-47090540252583731572010-07-11T18:50:25.810+01:002010-07-11T18:50:25.810+01:00No, Mr West I didn’t detect the slightest irony in...No, Mr West I didn’t detect the slightest irony in your statement of 10th July. If irony was intended than it was, given the subject matter, singularly misjudged.<br /><br />However, I cannot quite agree that the Abbey would be acting foolishly in taking you to court. What you and others publish on this site is almost entirely unproven being almost entirely hearsay or gossip. To cite just one, recent, instance: you have devoted a huge amount of space attempting to undermine Dom Gregory Chillman. Your efforts, as usual and as one would expect, attracted a number of accusations. One informant even went so far as to state that Fr Gregory’s nefarious activities had been carefully covered up by St Augustine’s for many years. <br /><br />This information has, however, proved to be disinformation. Fr Gregory has been fully exonerated and is back performing his priestly and other duties with an entirely unblemished character.<br /> <br />Perhaps an apology and some explanation are called for? I assure you Mr West, I'm not being ironical!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-11849258044024470842010-07-11T17:46:31.106+01:002010-07-11T17:46:31.106+01:00May I first correct the post of 11.05 by providing...May I first correct the post of <b>11.05</b> by providing the correct definition of rape? Offences committed before 1 May 2004 are prosecuted under the Sexual Offences Act 1956. Under the 1956 Act,the statutory definition of rape is any act of non-consensual intercourse by a man with a person, and the victim can be either male or female. Intercourse can be vaginal or anal. It does not include non-consensual oral sex. The courts had defined consent as having its ordinary meaning, and lack of consent could be inferred from the surrounding circumstances, such as submission through fear. It is a defence if the defendant believed that the victim was consenting, even if this belief was unreasonable, and this is a matter of fact for the jury.<br /><br /><b>Offences committed on or after 1 May 2004</b> are prosecuted under the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The 2003 Act extends the definition of rape to include the penetration by a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person. The 2003 Act also changes the law about consent and belief in consent.<br /><br />The word "consent" in the context of the offence of rape is now defined in the Sexual Offences Act 2003. A person consents if he or she agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. The essence of this definition is the agreement by choice. The law does not require the victim to have resisted physically in order to prove a lack of consent. The question of whether the victim consented is a matter for the jury to decide, although the CPS consider this issue very carefully throughout the life of the case. The prosecutor will take into account evidence of all the circumstances surrounding the offence.<br /><br />Poster <b> 15.03 </b> seems to be reading a very different West posting to me. Mr West states:<br /><b><i>You seem to be arguing that because evil exists outside the catholic church, the evil within it ought not to be addressed.<br />You seem to be arguing that because some children are murdered, we should not pursue or punish people who merely rape children.</i></b><br />Where in these remarks is St Benedict's either mentioned or implied. If you claim it is, then according to you he is also implying murder takes place at the school. <br />Of course no one is in a position to know whether rape does take place at the school unless of course a victim has told him, but it is perfectly possible it has and may do today, but sadly none of us are presently in a position to know because of confidentiality, data protection, <b>and the fact that even if it is discovered in the school and reported to the school’s administration, no school or institution is under any mandatory requirement in law to report child sexual abuse including rape to any authority including the LADO, police or social services. Furthermore should a school fail to report such crimes there is no sanction for failing to report.</b> The same applies to all schools whether single sex or not, boarding or day, maintained or independent in England, Wales or Scotland. Schools, nurseries, FE Colleges, sports clubs, clubs, faith, healthcare all operate in a fractured unfit for purpose landscape where the victim of abuse whether sexual, physical or emotional is totally unsupported by the existence of any statutory framework. It is the ‘big lie’ created by the last government which will worsen under the current regime. Children have no rights in England. <br /> <br />Given these facts, and the very sorry safeguarding history that has come to light at St Benedict’s, I for one can easily comprehend the deep concern felt by parents and former pupils about the abysmal safeguarding policy that the school currently promulgates and for which the school seems to expect no criticism. I imagine the policy is only on the school’s website because it became a legal requirement for independent schools early last year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-42860411834810794472010-07-11T17:41:44.660+01:002010-07-11T17:41:44.660+01:00I think you might be unaware of irony if you thoug...I think you might be unaware of irony if you thought my mention of "mere" child rape was intended to suggest that I thought it unimportant. I was highlighting the fact that that Crouchback was giving the impression that <i>he</i> though it unimportant in comparison with child murders.<br /><br />As for child rape, yes, I have heard accounts of that. I have encouraged the victims to come forward and make statements to the police, and in some cases at least they have done so. It would be inappropriate to provide specifics, partly because I do not wish to compromise the police investigation, and partly because I must not breach confidences.<br /><br />If the Abbey wants to sue me, they know how to find me. But I doubt that they would be so foolish.Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-71540379660862306622010-07-11T16:13:56.284+01:002010-07-11T16:13:56.284+01:00I'm relieved to see that Mr West acknowledges ...I'm relieved to see that Mr West acknowledges child rape to be a serious matter and no mere foible. However, his comments of 10th July strongly imply that rape is, or was, an issue at St Benedict's. This is a very serious accusation so could he please substantiate this apparent claim? Who exactly stands accused? Accusations of this sort, if no more than that, are not just irresponsible but could well be subject to legal proceedings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-23220092625969265912010-07-11T15:03:58.796+01:002010-07-11T15:03:58.796+01:00Any individual case is only a small fraction of th...Any individual case is only a small fraction of the whole problem. Should each case then not be bothered with? Or should it just not be bothered with if the perpetrator happens to be a Catholic priest?<br /><br />Father David Pearce's activities happened at my son's school. The school's child protection measures remain inadequate.<br /><br />I can't fix the whole world, nobody can. But if we each individually pay attention to improving our own corner of it, then great improvements can be made cumulatively. I invite you to join me in improving this particular corner.<br /><br />And Lord Patten is an Adviser to the school. Therefore it forms part of his corner of the world. It's reasonable to ask what he's doing to improve it.<br /><br />What are <i>you</i> doing?Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-90169622683819163492010-07-11T14:56:22.688+01:002010-07-11T14:56:22.688+01:00What I was trying to point out was that terrible a...What I was trying to point out was that terrible as sex abuse by priests or anyone connected to the church is......these cases are but a tiny fraction of the whole problem.<br /><br />The John Jay College of Justice New York university tells us that since 1950 there have been around 10,800 alleged cases of child abuse by priests or religious of which 350 went to trial, 250 convictions and 100 individuals went to jail......<br /><br />Recently we heard the there are 39 Million......39 Million.......39....MILLION, Americans who claim to have been abused......has the BBC.....or any other media reported this...??? Google it and check it out for your self.<br /><br />Or is it only news when Catholic Priests are involved...???Crouchbackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02935593078371004088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-87061721370166174492010-07-11T14:40:12.951+01:002010-07-11T14:40:12.951+01:00It was in the context of Crouchback's comment ...It was in the context of Crouchback's comment about how many children are murdered. I agree, child rape is a most serious crime, and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no matter who the rapist is.Jonathan Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527063732905729010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6518202135348193859.post-55111592594545890882010-07-11T13:37:10.241+01:002010-07-11T13:37:10.241+01:00We have not yet had a reply from Mr West regarding...We have not yet had a reply from Mr West regarding his reference to ‘rape’. <br />He writes (10th July) of 'people who merely rape children'. Given that, both in law and common parlance, rape is regarded as a very serious crime indeed, to write of merely raping children is a rather bizarre choice of words.<br /><br />Furthermore: to most minds, ‘rape’ implies: ’an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent’ which is, I believe, its legal definition.<br /><br />Readers of this blog will further assume that Mr West’s accusations are, as usual, directed here at Ealing Abbey. So. the question remains: Who, if anyone, at Ealing Abbey is Mr West accusing of rape? Perhaps, the term was chosen, of course, for purely emotive reasons?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com