Wow. This contains some amazing old footage. Where did this come from?
And the "bundle"... that brought back memories. What a fine old Benedictine tradition that is, along with having your head flushed in a toilet as a birthday treat.
Come on, recent leavers: tell me these things no longer happen.
ah, the black pitch, the big tree, a pair of knickers flown from the flag pole during a CC parade. steady now, some fond memories of that despicable cesspit of child abuse!
Speaking from my own experience of the late 1970s - early 1980s I can add that "posting" occurred in the cloakrooms also, against the ends of the coathanger frames. Thankfully I never directly experienced bog-washing, and can't remember it occurring in my year, but it certainly did occur in other years according to witnesses I have broached the subject with. However, in my year they used to turn the taps full on in those gigantic multitap sinks in the toilet area at the back of the cloakrooms, bundle and immobilise the birthday boy (on one occasion by a direct punch to the jaw), and then throw him into the sink. Nobody was ever disciplined for this kind of thing, it was simply an accepted way of life, by staff and pupils alike. 4 words come to my mind: deliberately nurtured, institutional brutality. There was also "the bumps", another birthday "tradition", followed by bundling and on occasion, extreme violence, including a broken arm for one pupil, as somebody told me recently. I did bully others myself, both pupils and teachers, and now very much regret doing so, but never to a particularly great extent. Some of the stuff that went on was just shocking, and I believe has left many people with mental scars. "Teaching a way of living" indeed, that they did. As an adult trying to lead a normal life, one can only try to stop these experiences from causing angst, depression, heart disease or even cancer. If I was to catch up with some of the people responsible, even now, as adults, I would be happy to see them horse-whipped. Unfortunately however, that may only be perpetuating a cycle of violence. Who's to say what's right though? One needs to keep one's own moral compass, in spite of all the filth, decay and hipocrisy.
i was a pupil from 1960 to 1971 and while I saw what I now recognise as abuse and a bit of bullying, i did not see this overt physical violence. our memories tend to polarise events and subsequent problems can be excused and our failings vested on incidents from the past. bitterness destroys you not the supposed perpetrators of your experiences.
@18:25: "Bitterness" is a strong word. I'm not really bitter, but I do strive to maintain a certain scorn and derision, both for the unpleasant people I encountered (both staff and pupils, and the "way of living" they espoused. This works better for me, and makes me a better person now than if I was to simply forget, forgive or move on. Apart from that, and as a general rule, I do agree that keeping grudges or being bitter is probably not good for you, but it depends to what extent you do this. Small grudges can be good, because they serve as reminders of what you don't like/want in your life.
What I gained from the meeting last night was a sense that although there were requests for their resignations the majority of parents are prepared to give Mr Cleugh and Abbott Martin a second chance to get things right.
Yes you are quite correct 13.37 - Royal Ascent today. I knew it was soon but not when.
This Bill is not retrospective, so West has nothing to fear otherwise how would all those papers unprint what is already written?
Would Carlile's report have to be unpublished and removed from the Benny's website? Maybe the school could be charged with breach of clause 13! Now there is an idea.
No one at this stage knows where the boundaries are which became apparent in Phillips's speech. Newspapers are lining up to defend the first charged particularly Black who also spoke against the clause.
Perhaps Mr West might like to volunteer so the schools that have taken his interest can secure even more adverse publicity.
I was the one who reported the former teacher John Maestri to the police in 2001 and got him finally locked up. At the court case I met a chap from Birmingham which Maestri had previously taught in his early twenties who had reported him then but the CPS felt they did not have enough evidence. He had travelled down with a CID officer to watch him get locked up after more than twenty five years of waiting! Since then many other cases have come to light of abuse at the school by Maestri and others as I'm sure you are all well aware. I believe that there are many many more cases that have not been reported as the victims I'm sure just wish to forget those experiences and bury them. The Abbey have an awful lot to answer for by way of years of covering up and sheltering paedophiles as far as I'm concerned. In terms of the school now. As long as the Abbey have nothing to do with it then of course it should remain. As a few OP's have said they had a great time there, as I did in many respects and the camaraderie agmonst OP's is stronger than in any other school I know of. As far as I'm concerned the attitude of the boys themselves made St.Benedict's enjoyable due to the nature of the teachers and the monks - it was laughable in many ways. May the watershed begin of many more guilty paedophiles and shelters being locked up and being publicly shamed. I have no idea who Jonathan West is, but personally I would like to thank you for carrying on the quest to open up "this can of worms" at St. Benedict's. As a victim I would like to inform everyone that it is, and is helping me to get some closure on the past. I'd like to think that I kicked this whole episode off - not for self gratitude (as some idiots have put it), but to hopefully STOP further abuse and to HELP those who were abused to also get some closure and truth out of what happened. It was not easy to come forward, especially for who it may hurt in your family. That's the paedophile's main weapon of security. The truth is always the best and only way in life (however many people it hurts) - so lets have some more of it. To quote Tolstoy, "There can be no greatness where simplicity, goodness and truth are absent".
"I'd like to think that I kicked this whole episode off - not for self gratitude (as some idiots have put it), but to hopefully STOP further abuse and to HELP those who were abused to also get some closure and truth out of what happened. It was not easy to come forward, especially for who it may hurt in your family. That's the paedophile's main weapon of security.
I relate to your statement completely, although the abuse I experienced was at another school. One needs to develop a coping strategy because the experiences are embedded in your psyche, they are always there, they never go away.
Thank you for your comments at 18:37. One has to look on the bright side of life and get on with it. I have personally dealt with it very well over the years, but many may not have and if they can get some closure on these evil, pathetic little people being locked up then all the better: Apart from the fact that they need to be locked up anyway for the crimes they've committed.
Why dont you nominate your self or Joe Miller or Prosper Keating come forward and be part of the new advising body at St Benedicts - they could do with someone elses perspective.
It may give closure to the victims the Abbott and the school
Dear Ex benny, hmm yes I have those 'fond' memories!
I witnessed bog washing, postings on the square flagpole and one cloakroom posting. You forgot to mention 'guntying' (the forceful ripping and removal of underpants by a mob). Generally with a low profile, careful avoidance of the cloakroom/toilet at specific times I managed to escape most rituals. CCF summer camp was a Lord of the Flies culture . CCF winter friday nights in the dark were brutal at times. How I wished I d had the courage to punch the bully back in the face whilst we were under the supervision of the useless kid corporal! I was right not to of course.
To be honest though I thought all this was pretty normal. I bet it was common at lots of schools in the 70s and 80s.
The biggest teacher inflicted issue was when I was slapped in the face for talking by the PE lay teacher, at St Annes Convent at circa age 5 or 6. My parents got involved and I never went to PE again at that school. This was my loss of course, as I loved games but not under those conditions. I was told later that PE teacher was renowned for physical violence in the school. A slap of course doesn't compare to sexual abuse so I cant complain.
I realise now that these are cultures allowed or nurtured by the teachers I would hope there is a better culture of respect and consequences in this day and age in most schools and systems to identify where this isnt the case.
Quick message to J West - well done and keep up the good work.
""Speaking from my own experience of the late 1970s - early 1980s I can add that "posting" occurred in the cloakrooms also, against the ends of the coathanger frames. Thankfully I never directly experienced bog-washing, and can't remember it occurring in my year, but it certainly did occur in other years according to witnesses I have broached the subject with. However, in my year they used to turn the taps full on in those gigantic multitap sinks in the toilet area at the back of the cloakrooms, bundle and immobilise the birthday boy (on one occasion by a direct punch to the jaw), and then throw him into the sink. Nobody was ever disciplined for this kind of thing, it was simply an accepted way of life, by staff and pupils alike. 4 words come to my mind: deliberately nurtured, institutional brutality. There was also "the bumps", another birthday "tradition", followed by bundling and on occasion, extreme violence, including a broken arm for one pupil, as somebody told me recently. I did bully others myself, both pupils and teachers, and now very much regret doing so, but never to a particularly great extent. Some of the stuff that went on was just shocking""
Taken from 15/11/11 18:00
I realise that this post is slightly afflicted by the dimension of time and for this I apologise.
To the Poster/Writer that I have quoted above - WAKE UP!! The slight suffering that you may have experienced from what you say, is NORMAL. You were just bullied like 85% of school children are at some point of their schooling.
I'm of the understanding that this site is pertaining to "Chlld Abuse", that is a feeble crime committed by ADULTS on CHILDREN, so please save us your "bog-washing" incidents - they are wholly pathetic compared to paedophilia and it's after effects.
I disagree. I think it is important that examples of bullying are publicised, because they serve to illustrate the oppressive atmosphere at the school which ensured that victims of more serious abuses were usually to scared to speak up about it.
And I was in school in the 1970s, at an independent school, but not at St. Benedict's. While there was bullying there from time to time, it was not on anything like the scale I have heard described as going on at St. Benedict's. The bullying that happened at St B was not normal as compared to other schools even by the standards of that time.
The bullying that happened at Benedict's was nothing to do with the school or it's governing. It was simply to do with mis-placed families living in LONDON. By misplaced, I mean families that were not at all from London or anywhere near, but they had moved the family there for work.
The problem with misplaced London families is that they have no identity, no-one to answer to or look up to. It's a common trait of migration.
The bullying that happened at Benedict's was absolutely nothing to do with the establishment at the school, it was simply the boys living and growing up in a hostile, dog-eat-dog, unknown city to them.
This blog is largely concerned with highlighting the child sex abuse which has occurred at Ealing Abbey and St. Benedict's School.
I have two aims: to try and ensure that the child protection policies of the Abbey and school are brought up to the highest possible standard, and to provide support to any victims of abuse at St. Benedict's or elsewhere.
Because of the sensitive subject matter of this blog, comments are moderated. Comments will not be published if in my opinion:
- the comment might prejudice any criminal prosecution which is underway,
- the comment might commit a contempt of court (e.g. in naming a victim of abuse whose identity has been protected by court order),
- the comment seeks to contribute to an atmosphere of intimidation to discourage abuse survivors from coming forward,
- the comment seeks to promote paedophilia as a natural or harmless activity or seeks to promote its legalisation.
If you make a comment and it is not published and want to know why, you are welcome to email me to ask why.
Wow. This contains some amazing old footage. Where did this come from?
ReplyDeleteAnd the "bundle"... that brought back memories. What a fine old Benedictine tradition that is, along with having your head flushed in a toilet as a birthday treat.
Come on, recent leavers: tell me these things no longer happen.
I can confirm that whilst I have heard of "bog-washing", this never occurred in my time at the school and I left in the 2000s'.
ReplyDeleteReference to being posted against the flag pole brought back fond memories.
ReplyDeleteah, the black pitch, the big tree, a pair of knickers flown from the flag pole during a CC parade. steady now, some fond memories of that despicable cesspit of child abuse!
ReplyDeleteSpeaking from my own experience of the late 1970s - early 1980s I can add that "posting" occurred in the cloakrooms also, against the ends of the coathanger frames. Thankfully I never directly experienced bog-washing, and can't remember it occurring in my year, but it certainly did occur in other years according to witnesses I have broached the subject with. However, in my year they used to turn the taps full on in those gigantic multitap sinks in the toilet area at the back of the cloakrooms, bundle and immobilise the birthday boy (on one occasion by a direct punch to the jaw), and then throw him into the sink. Nobody was ever disciplined for this kind of thing, it was simply an accepted way of life, by staff and pupils alike. 4 words come to my mind: deliberately nurtured, institutional brutality. There was also "the bumps", another birthday "tradition", followed by bundling and on occasion, extreme violence, including a broken arm for one pupil, as somebody told me recently. I did bully others myself, both pupils and teachers, and now very much regret doing so, but never to a particularly great extent. Some of the stuff that went on was just shocking, and I believe has left many people with mental scars. "Teaching a way of living" indeed, that they did. As an adult trying to lead a normal life, one can only try to stop these experiences from causing angst, depression, heart disease or even cancer. If I was to catch up with some of the people responsible, even now, as adults, I would be happy to see them horse-whipped. Unfortunately however, that may only be perpetuating a cycle of violence. Who's to say what's right though? One needs to keep one's own moral compass, in spite of all the filth, decay and hipocrisy.
ReplyDeletei was a pupil from 1960 to 1971 and while I saw what I now recognise as abuse and a bit of bullying, i did not see this overt physical violence. our memories tend to polarise events and subsequent problems can be excused and our failings vested on incidents from the past. bitterness destroys you not the supposed perpetrators of your experiences.
ReplyDeleteThe bumps was seen as too much effort by my year who went in for the tunnel of death as a birthday present.
ReplyDelete@18:25: "Bitterness" is a strong word. I'm not really bitter, but I do strive to maintain a certain scorn and derision, both for the unpleasant people I encountered (both staff and pupils, and the "way of living" they espoused. This works better for me, and makes me a better person now than if I was to simply forget, forgive or move on. Apart from that, and as a general rule, I do agree that keeping grudges or being bitter is probably not good for you, but it depends to what extent you do this. Small grudges can be good, because they serve as reminders of what you don't like/want in your life.
ReplyDeleteMr. West, Paragraph 13 of the new Education Act 2011 may be of urgent interest to you in relation to material published on this blog.
ReplyDelete12.48 post.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Mr West - it is not of concern for numerous reasons.
Clause 13 is though an attack on press Freedom as was so clearly explained by Lord Phillips of Sudbury in his speech during the debate.
The Bill has yet to receive approval.
What I gained from the meeting last night was a sense that although there were requests for their resignations the majority of parents are prepared to give Mr Cleugh and Abbott Martin a second chance to get things right.
ReplyDeletePlease don't disappoint
The bill has received Royal Assent today with Section 13 included.
ReplyDeleteYes you are quite correct 13.37 - Royal Ascent today. I knew it was soon but not when.
ReplyDeleteThis Bill is not retrospective, so West has nothing to fear otherwise how would all those papers unprint what is already written?
Would Carlile's report have to be unpublished and removed from the Benny's website? Maybe the school could be charged with breach of clause 13! Now there is an idea.
No one at this stage knows where the boundaries are which became apparent in Phillips's speech. Newspapers are lining up to defend the first charged particularly Black who also spoke against the clause.
Perhaps Mr West might like to volunteer so the schools that have taken his interest can secure even more adverse publicity.
Just a thought.
I was the one who reported the former teacher John Maestri to the police in 2001 and got him finally locked up. At the court case I met a chap from Birmingham which Maestri had previously taught in his early twenties who had reported him then but the CPS felt they did not have enough evidence. He had travelled down with a CID officer to watch him get locked up after more than twenty five years of waiting!
ReplyDeleteSince then many other cases have come to light of abuse at the school by Maestri and others as I'm sure you are all well aware. I believe that there are many many more cases that have not been reported as the victims I'm sure just wish to forget those experiences and bury them. The Abbey have an awful lot to answer for by way of years of covering up and sheltering paedophiles as far as I'm concerned.
In terms of the school now. As long as the Abbey have nothing to do with it then of course it should remain. As a few OP's have said they had a great time there, as I did in many respects and the camaraderie agmonst OP's is stronger than in any other school I know of. As far as I'm concerned the attitude of the boys themselves made St.Benedict's enjoyable due to the nature of the teachers and the monks - it was laughable in many ways.
May the watershed begin of many more guilty paedophiles and shelters being locked up and being publicly shamed.
I have no idea who Jonathan West is, but personally I would like to thank you for carrying on the quest to open up "this can of worms" at St. Benedict's. As a victim I would like to inform everyone that it is, and is helping me to get some closure on the past. I'd like to think that I kicked this whole episode off - not for self gratitude (as some idiots have put it), but to hopefully STOP further abuse and to HELP those who were abused to also get some closure and truth out of what happened. It was not easy to come forward, especially for who it may hurt in your family. That's the paedophile's main weapon of security. The truth is always the best and only way in life (however many people it hurts) - so lets have some more of it. To quote Tolstoy, "There can be no greatness where simplicity, goodness and truth are absent".
16.43
ReplyDelete"I'd like to think that I kicked this whole episode off - not for self gratitude (as some idiots have put it), but to hopefully STOP further abuse and to HELP those who were abused to also get some closure and truth out of what happened. It was not easy to come forward, especially for who it may hurt in your family. That's the paedophile's main weapon of security.
I relate to your statement completely, although the abuse I experienced was at another school. One needs to develop a coping strategy because the experiences are embedded in your psyche, they are always there, they never go away.
Thank you for your comments at 18:37. One has to look on the bright side of life and get on with it. I have personally dealt with it very well over the years, but many may not have and if they can get some closure on these evil, pathetic little people being locked up then all the better: Apart from the fact that they need to be locked up anyway for the crimes they've committed.
ReplyDeleteDear Op
ReplyDeleteWhy dont you nominate your self or Joe Miller or Prosper Keating come forward and be part of the new advising body at St Benedicts - they could do with someone elses perspective.
It may give closure to the victims the Abbott and the school
RE: last post 10:43
ReplyDeleteI presume that you are some type of muppet. If you've got nothing sensible to say then don't bother.
Dear Ex benny, hmm yes I have those 'fond' memories!
ReplyDeleteI witnessed bog washing, postings on the square flagpole and one cloakroom posting. You forgot to mention 'guntying' (the forceful ripping and removal of underpants by a mob). Generally with a low profile, careful avoidance of the cloakroom/toilet at specific times I managed to escape most rituals. CCF summer camp was a Lord of the Flies culture . CCF winter friday nights in the dark were brutal at times. How I wished I d had the courage to punch the bully back in the face whilst we were under the supervision of the useless kid corporal! I was right not to of course.
To be honest though I thought all this was pretty normal. I bet it was common at lots of schools in the 70s and 80s.
The biggest teacher inflicted issue was when I was slapped in the face for talking by the PE lay teacher, at St Annes Convent at circa age 5 or 6. My parents got involved and I never went to PE again at that school. This was my loss of course, as I loved games but not under those conditions. I was told later that PE teacher was renowned for physical violence in the school. A slap of course doesn't compare to sexual abuse so I cant complain.
I realise now that these are cultures allowed or nurtured by the teachers I would hope there is a better culture of respect and consequences in this day and age in most schools and systems to identify where this isnt the case.
Quick message to J West - well done and keep up the good work.
""Speaking from my own experience of the late 1970s - early 1980s I can add that "posting" occurred in the cloakrooms also, against the ends of the coathanger frames. Thankfully I never directly experienced bog-washing, and can't remember it occurring in my year, but it certainly did occur in other years according to witnesses I have broached the subject with. However, in my year they used to turn the taps full on in those gigantic multitap sinks in the toilet area at the back of the cloakrooms, bundle and immobilise the birthday boy (on one occasion by a direct punch to the jaw), and then throw him into the sink. Nobody was ever disciplined for this kind of thing, it was simply an accepted way of life, by staff and pupils alike. 4 words come to my mind: deliberately nurtured, institutional brutality. There was also "the bumps", another birthday "tradition", followed by bundling and on occasion, extreme violence, including a broken arm for one pupil, as somebody told me recently. I did bully others myself, both pupils and teachers, and now very much regret doing so, but never to a particularly great extent. Some of the stuff that went on was just shocking""
ReplyDeleteTaken from 15/11/11 18:00
I realise that this post is slightly afflicted by the dimension of time and for this I apologise.
To the Poster/Writer that I have quoted above - WAKE UP!! The slight suffering that you may have experienced from what you say, is NORMAL. You were just bullied like 85% of school children are at some point of their schooling.
I'm of the understanding that this site is pertaining to "Chlld Abuse", that is a feeble crime committed by ADULTS on CHILDREN, so please save us your "bog-washing" incidents - they are wholly pathetic compared to paedophilia and it's after effects.
17:01
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think it is important that examples of bullying are publicised, because they serve to illustrate the oppressive atmosphere at the school which ensured that victims of more serious abuses were usually to scared to speak up about it.
And I was in school in the 1970s, at an independent school, but not at St. Benedict's. While there was bullying there from time to time, it was not on anything like the scale I have heard described as going on at St. Benedict's. The bullying that happened at St B was not normal as compared to other schools even by the standards of that time.
The bullying that happened at Benedict's was nothing to do with the school or it's governing. It was simply to do with mis-placed families living in LONDON. By misplaced, I mean families that were not at all from London or anywhere near, but they had moved the family there for work.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with misplaced London families is that they have no identity, no-one to answer to or look up to. It's a common trait of migration.
The bullying that happened at Benedict's was absolutely nothing to do with the establishment at the school, it was simply the boys living and growing up in a hostile, dog-eat-dog, unknown city to them.